How To Ask For More Money Job Offer
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How To Ask For More Money Job Offer
Source: https://www.askamanager.org/2021/08/ask-for-more-money-with-that-job-offer-heres-how.html
Posted by: jacksonnoreopme.blogspot.com
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Thanks. Helpful info as always!
Would love to hear from folks (either Alison or the commentariat!) on negotiating salary in jobs that have strict civil service bands, like state or federal government. Is there ever any leeway? Is there ever a way to negotiate non-salary perks given the constraints on salary?
I work in state government and the only real success I have seen in negotiations is done through demonstrating you have more years of experience than what they are currently calculating the salary on.
For state of California hiring, there is leeway on pay within the allowable range. It is called "hiring above minimum" aka "HAM." Not all departments will HAM new hires and some put in their advertisements that employees will be hired only at the minimum.
I'd say if you are trying to get into California state civil service, try to get HAM because once you're in, you're sort of "locked in" until you change classifications. This is especially important in any classifications that have, at any point, been "deep classed" meaning there are now fewer classifications, but a broader pay range. This is good in that you don't have to go through the whole application and interview process to keep moving up the pay range, but bad in that if you're starting at the low end, it may be a long time before you have the chance to jump to a higher class. So if you see a really broad $$ range in a class and a lot of experience needed before you can jump to the next class, you want to HAM if you can or you could trail behind your peers who got a HAM for many years.
I had no idea about HAM when I started with the state. I was a high level performer for years when I learned about it. I then tried to get my pay increased to my peers who were hired above minimum and earning $10k/year more than me and was told the ONLY way that could happen is if I had a competing job offer that the department would then try and match. Otherwise, too bad, so sad.
(What ended up happening as a result of them telling me to look for another job was I got an offer so good that they couldn't match it if they wanted to. So I am no longer in the civil service.)
State government here– I have never successfully negotiated non-salary perks, although I ask every year at raise time. I have had success at asking to start higher up on the pay band before, usually framing it as "I know there are strict guidelines, is there any leeway for me to start at x level, given these reasons"
I haven't had any luck negotiating salary. I've tried two or three times at different state jobs and was told every time that the amount being offered was final. I haven't tried negotiating with perks or benefits but I assume the answer would be the same, given the rigid rules in place regarding, for example, how vacation accrual is based on years of service.
Be familiar with the pay bands and ranges for the position to make sure you're not being underpaid! I worked for my state (still do, but different job) and received a promotion with a 20% raise. I was thrilled so I accepted it. I was relatively new so I wasn't familiar with the system of job classifications and salaries. I found out a few years later that I was being paid well below what the salary should have been based on that info.
I'm in local government and agree that you're pretty well only going to be able to negotiate on actual salary, benefits are part of a union negotiated contract usually. For salary, you should be prepared to explain why your experience merits the step you're requesting (pay scales should be publicly available, do your research)
For formal benefits, yes. You might be able to negotiate certain other things that are actually discretionary.
So, as an example, I work at a state university in a purely teaching role. Things such as salary and formal benefits weren't really a negotiable piece; I was brought in at the same salary level as 3 other people hired at the same time, and benefits such as health insurance and retirement matching are contractual through the union. We also don't actually accrue any PTO, so that wasn't an option either. But there are a number of things that have always been available "with the approval of your manager". So, I successfully negotiated "For the past 4 years, I have taught X class (in a different department) on top of my full-time responsibilities. Because it's considered overage, it is contingent on approval from my manager. Can I have your approval to continue doing that?"
The year I was funded from a source other than our typical renewable source, I also asked if I could have someone cover a class session if I got a faculty interview that I couldn't schedule around my course load, the same as we did for the part time temporary faculty, and got that approved too (and was commended for not putting all my eggs in one basket).
The only time I've seen this work in fed gov is when you're current salary is higher than the named range for the job.
I was able to negotiate in a job like this because they definitely wanted to hire me and the amount they were offering me was just too low compared to a similar role I had been in. They had to give me a title bump too ("Senior Llama Herder" vs "Llama Herder") though.
I work for the federal government and negotiated a higher salary when I started; and I'm a hiring manager, so I have been on both sides of the equation. When I started I was new to the feds and didn't even know what a salary schedule was, so I said "a lot of other jobs I'm looking are offering $##, any flexibility on that?" (about 7500 over the offer, because my prior job change had got me a 10k raise). It was also right in the middle of the pay band. They said they would see, and two weeks later they offered me a step with a salary higher than the one I asked for (initally offered me a step one, offered me a step 4). Now that I've done it on the flip side: the person askes for a number (match or higher), HR comes to me and says "do you approve of offering them a Step N?" and then I write a memo affectionately called "Superior Quals" where I reiterate a few points from their resume or interview about how they will fill a critical gap and that's it so hard to hire people with this skill set. It's easier when it's a match to current salary. I had someone who wanted to match their salary from a previous job, and I tried to justify bringing them in at a step 7 (equal to step 1 of the next grade, not unheard of), but it was the only time i was denied, because it wasn't matching current salary- so basically, current salary, not best salary matching.
I recently accepted a position with state government and begin working there next month so my knowledge is limited, but in my case I was offered a pay band above the listed amount because of my experience. I didn't have to negotiate, they just adjusted before making the offer.
I wish I'd done this before starting my current job. I got laid off, so I sort of had to take whatever was available, but it wound up being a huge decrease in pay from the job I lost. Now, I'm sort of just trying to stick it out because I'm learning a lot of best practices that were totally missed at the last place, but man, the pay situation really stinks.
Yeah, me too. But, I'm nearing* retirement age, and I really like my current job (except for the salary). I have finally caught back up to where I was, but it sure would have been nice without that huge hit to my overall earnings.
*Nearing – as in the next couple of years, unless it is less.
Thank you so much for all of this Alison! So helpful.
How do you know which pay scales are set in stone, for example a school district, or where there is room for negotiation? Someone recently wrote in that they negotiated a government salary, which I didn't know you could do. From reading this column my understanding is that most are negotiable, I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I thought it was set in stone when it was not
I don't have an answer for you, but I do work in a field where the listed salary is non-negotiable and we can't offer other perks, either. I wouldn't hold it against someone if they asked if the salary were negotiable, even during the interview stage. Sure, it's common knowledge in the field that salaries are rarely negotiable, but sometimes they are, so it makes sense that a candidate would ask. You work for money – it makes sense that you'd want to know up front if the position is worth pursuing! I know not everyone thinks that way, so maybe this comment isn't helpful.
I do list the salary in the job ad and use the phone screen to say, "The salary is $X. Unfortunately, there's no room for negotiation. Is that within your acceptable range?" I don't know how this comes across to applicants, but my intent is to be as clear as possible and to raise the salary issue so that the applicants don't have to stress over how or when to bring it up.
I got a teaching job in a school district that counted my time in military service toward my experience, so I got a bump on the pay scale, but I know that probably doesn't help. :/
That's a really good point that there is some room for negotiation in terms of years of experience and what counts for that
I've been job searching and a lot of posts have the salary range in the posting, which is great.
If the interviewer asks me what my salary range is I've been asking them, listening to their ramble that eventually approaches a range, and then sort of agreeing to it or not. It's awkward, but I'm not going to throw out a number first.
An old colleague introduced me to someone and the employer emailed me their JD. The job looks interesting, but their max salary is 75% of my minimum salary. Is it even worth asking if there is room to move in their job description? If not, is there any reason to or way to tell either my old colleague or the employer that I'm saying no because of the salary?
If you're in contact with the employer already then I would say definitely go ahead and ask — I think you can just be straightforward! Something like "oh I see it says your max is XXX but I'm looking for something closer to YYY, is there any wiggle room on that because if not then I don't think it makes sense to move forward"
That way you're not inadvertently wasting anybody's time.
This summer, I used Alison's salary negotiating advice in my first negotiation with a vendor. I had always been told that to negotiate, you have to have something to offer the other person, which didn't make sense when we, a tiny organization with no professional influence, are trying to get a vendor's product for cheaper.
Recently, there was a product that would have benefited us, but we couldn't justify the listed cost. I sent an email to the sales person, "Any chance it could be $X?" I didn't add any reasons or context, which felt rude or incomplete or something wrong.
They agreed! They agreed to give us the product for 75% off the list price – a list price that was within market-rate, so it's not like they were overcharging to begin with. I'm still slightly astounded that it was so simple.
Haha that's great! But I guess in that case what you're "offering" them is your business, so the thought process still holds up. If they're able to give the discount, then they get your business; if they can't, then they (potentially) don't get your business.
This is, hands down, the best tip I ever learned for my profession. I work with a lot of vendors and do a lot of negotiating on price. Earlier in my career, I'd look at the price on offer and take it at face value. My then-boss often had me go back to the vendor and ask for a discount that I felt was wildly out of range. The vast majority of vendors gave us what we asked for or negotiated with us for something in the middle. It never hurts to ask – the worst they can say is no! (The "any chance it could be…" phrasing is my go-to for this and it works all the time!)
in my last corporate role – my entire salary negotiation went 'How does 140 sound?" "150 sounds better!" "OK"
I'd love some examples of language around signing bonuses – is it better just to ask for it after/in addition to an agreed upon salary? Or to frame it as "In lieu of XXXX salary, can you consider a one-time signing bonus?"
I just verbally accepted a new job last week, and while I'm still waiting for the official documents to sign, I was able to negotiate a signing bonus.
I forget exactly who brought up the issue of annual bonuses first, but I learned that the new company usually issues their annual bonuses at the end of the calendar year. In contrast, my current employer issues theirs in March – and that as a result, I'd be forgoing my bonus for work I've already done by leaving before next March. While I might still be eligible for a bonus in the new role, it will be heavily pro-rated because I will be starting so late in the year.
The HR person asked what my current bonus was, and said that they'd see if there was a way to compensate me for that. And then I found out on Monday that my new boss approved a signing bonus of $5k. It was a pretty painless process!
I sort of did something similar to that, although in my case I was relocating so it might not be applicable to your situation.
The company made me an offer, and then I asked if they did any sort of relocation assistance/moving expenses. The hiring manager went off to check, and they came back to let me know that they couldn't do relocation (company policy said that they could only offer relocation packages to like, C-suite level positions), but they could give me a "signing bonus" that was meant to cover those moving costs but they would just be calling it a signing bonus instead.
One piece of advice I'd offer to anyone is, before you start negotiating, tell a friend what you're trying to do, try role-playing the conversation and work on *spitting out the words* ("I was thinking of more like $X") and ask them to hold you accountable for getting it out there. I find that it's difficult in the moment to say the words, and it's easy to end up hedging or not actually naming the number you want. I have to remind myself that the goal is to say it, not necessarily get it – getting it is out of your hands, but actually having the convo is up to you.
The day I was pretty sure an offer was coming, I just walked around the house saying, "Is there room on the salary? I was hoping for something closer to X," over and over. Just getting used to saying the words helped so much!
PS I had a revised offer letter for X in my invoice in less than 10 minutes.
This is cool – there's actually research bearing out this general concept that if you practice saying something in a low-stakes/practice situation, it will be easier and more natural to say in a real or high-stakes situation.
Thank you, Alison, for this compilation!
Well, this is perfectly timed. I just finished the final round of interviews for a job and it's looking promising! Hopefully, I can put these tips into practice soon.
I just got an offer that I did not negotiate bc it was so much better than what I would have asked for! I was prepared to negotiate … then the offer came in at seniority level one higher than I was going to ask for and at an enormous raise. Reader, I said yes.
I was in the same position when I started my current job earlier this year! I felt kind of weird about it, because "you're always supposed to negotiate, you don't want to leave money on the table!!!" but at the same time the offer was very good, and I really would have been negotiating "just because."
Not to mention the company had already explained to me their salary philosophy, which was that they research the candidate's market range for their role and then offer a salary at the very top of that range. So I felt like I really would have had to come up with some specific justification for why their idea of my market value wasn't accurate.
And in this case there really wasn't anything else to negotiate — benefits were very good, and this company does the "unlimited PTO" thing so it's not as if I could have tried asking for more vacation time or something, haha.
I would't necessarily trust they researched it correctly though. Did they provide their research?
No, but I think it still comes down to the same thing. It would have felt weird to just ask for more money, full stop– rather than something like "because of xyz reasons" I'm worth more.
And like I said, it was an offer that I was perfectly happy with as is.
I got an offer like that once. I still asked for more — and I got it! Alas, the company was hit hard by COVID; otherwise I would still be making that lovely, lovely money.
Good work! And, I'm sorry :(
I was just verbally offered a new job at a different company last week, and the offer was 40% higher than my current salary. I was really just hoping to get a 20% raise, so when I heard the number, I was very pleasantly surprised and accepted without any additional negotiation. On top of that, they also offered me 1 more week of vacation (just to START) than what I'm currently getting from the company I've been with for 5 years!
I have to admit that I *do* wonder if I've left money on the table, but considering they offered me so much more than I was expecting to start with (and also offered me a signing bonus!), I am still pretty satisfied.
I just did this for the first time! I'm used to jobs that have no room for negotiation. I'm changing industries and wasn't sure how it works in my new one. I got the verbal offer with the salary and benefits info. I asked for 24 hours to consider and then practiced out loud Alison's language: "thank you, I'm really excited about this! For the salary, would $x be possible?" I wrote it down so I could follow my script because I knew I'd be nervous. I called the HR director, tried not to throw up, said it perfectly, and then stopped talking. She paused a moment and then said, "I think we can do that, let me get approval and I'll get back to you tomorrow." She called me the next morning with the approved increase. I had only asked for about a 5% increase because I wasn't sure how much room there really was, but I'm really proud of myself for asking and super pumped I got it!
Thank you!
I chose not to negotiate an offer I received a few weeks ago. At the HR screen stage, they said that the salary range would be between $X and $X+5k. This seemed reasonable and, frankly, on the generous side. The offer they made was for $X+7k. I accepted the next day without negotiating anything. It really depends on your particular situation and your understanding of the market.
The vacation one especially is timely for me; thank you for organizing this so easily to access, Alison.
One thing that I learned is that the way an organization negotiates salary can tell you a lot about the organization.
My first career job was in local government, and they offered me a set salary at the bottom of their range and promised annual raises. But then reneged on annual raise two years in, and just kept doing that for the next six years. Only after about 4 years in did I find out that some people were given offers above the bottom of the range, but always based on things like if they had families, if they were local, did they have relatives there already, even where they went to high school. It was a huge red flag to how dysfunctional things actually were, even though I stuck around another 4 years.
Second job was as a contractor. The contract company asked my salary, and I told them that I wanted them to instead the market rather than my salary history… they looked up my public record salary instead and gave me x% above that, after already using the same number to negotiate my contract with the contracting company (so I was locked in). I left within 2 years, but it rapidly became clear that negotiating like that was a red flag of how they would heavy handily deal with employees and clients alike in a way that would quickly blow up their business.
Third job, on the other hand, gave me a huge pay bump above starting based on my work history and the market. Even then, they continued to give me bumps in pay and responsibility year after year, including adjustments above market because they believed me to be an above market performer. I have seen their fairness in handling salaries and bonuses wax and wane over time, and the waxing and waning definitely reflects changes in management that signal overall directions in the quality of the work environment. So far, so good.
I recently interviewed for a job that listed a very wide range (as in, $50K difference, where I wouldn't have bothered to apply at the low end). I flubbed the interview on multiple fronts, but also felt awkward when the salary issue did come up. I blathered something about due to my experience, etc. that I'd want to be at the higher part of their range. But, really, the real answer was, "I'm not looking to take a pay cut. I'd need to be in the top 1/3 of that range to make this a viable consideration."
In the future, should I be giving a more diplomatic version of that answer? Or, heck, be that blunt? I'm reluctant to bring up my own current salary– because the job should be about the market, its role, etc., not whatever I happen to be making now– but I'm in a field with notoriously low salaries.
I've read a lot of these links, and Alison's book!, and I still feel uncomfortable!
Personally, I love your pay cut language. It's blunt yet still diplomatic!
I would say "I'm looking for a position that pays $x, is that without your budget."
I like this script, delivered in a pleasant, open, and firm tone.
Thank you for this.
I do wish companies would stop asking what salary I want on the application. I don't know; I haven't talked to you yet!
(Lots. That's the answer; just…lots.)
Yeah, no kidding. I want lots of money, please give me that. In reality, it's hard to list a desired salary because applicants don't know what the benefits package looks like.
I have been known to enter "how much have you got?"
I've seen job postings ask that applicants list their desired salary range in their cover letter. Naturally, these are for jobs that don't list a salary on the advertisement. How should applicants respond to this request?
For me, I've always left this information off my cover letter. It's fine if the employer moves my application to the Do Not Contact pile. I'm concerned that listing low salary expectations will accidentally result in a below average job offer. This strategy might not work for everyone.
Ooh, thank you for the timing on this post!
I have a "phone chat" tomorrow for an interesting position that had a posted salary much less than what I could accept. But no range. While it may be a step back in terms of responsibility, it's a bigger "brand name," so I'd be happy to add it to my resume. But if they can't come up on salary, there's no point in further discussion.
And now I know how to ask about it. :)
Are the rules for negotiation the same for an internal job? I may be applying internally soon and while they're likely to have full transparency into my salary, I likely won't know the salary range of their position (unless it's listed specifically for a state in which you have to disclose, which some internal listings are.)
That being said, I'm paid on the (way) low end of my pay bracket, and I'll be applying to a job 1-2 brackets above mine. Chances are I'm going to have to fight for higher pay… any tips??
Same things apply. If they low ball you and say "it's an x% raise," respond with something about market rate for the position's type of work. It might not feel like there's an opportunity so you might need to say "I would like to discuss the salary for the new role."
Thank you Alison, I have just shared on my LinkedIn page.
Thank you for this, Alison! My dad taught me to negotiate at every offer, and it's one of the "privilege" things that has given me a better career than I might have had if I had come from a different family. Everybody should learn stuff like this!
I've hired close to 40 people in the last 2.5 years at my job (we're in serious growth mode!). Of those, I think 2 have negotiated on salary. But I nearly ALWAYS have flexibility to offer more if they ask for it, so I really wish people would advocate for themselves more. And to be clear, we're making fair offers – our recruiters always ask what a candidate's salary expectations are and we balance that against the salary range when putting together an offer. If someone names a salary that's below our range, we just ignore that number and offer them a fair salary within range. I don't try to lowball anyone, but if they ask for an additional $5k, it's pretty easy to say yes. Being on the other side has helped me so much in my own negotiations. I ALWAYS ask now, and I know that even if they so no, they won't see me asking as a personal affront (and if it is, that's a company you do not want to work for!).
Is it frowned upon to use past salary history to raise a posted salary? The posted salary is ~72 percent of my current salary, but in a geographically cheaper state (think NYC/DC to Baltimore/Philly). The benefits (particularly vacation time) are way better so I'm willing to drop a bit in salary for that, but wondering if I can ask them to increase the salary for the job by 8k-13k (about 13-20 percent of the posted salary), and if I should mention my current salary when I bring it up?
Best advice I've gotten about negotiation from this site: do NOT volunteer past salary information, as it may actually be illegal for them to ask in your state, and STOP TALKING when you state your salary and benefits requirements. Don't be tempted to fill the silence. Let it get awkward. It's okay. Channel your inner classroom teacher, the one who lets the silence get long before someone hops in with an answer to a question.
By not filling the silence and starting off my negotiations for my current position with, "Do you have relocation assistance available?", I made it clear that I was interested and also that I was willing to advocate for myself. I couldn't get help with the relocation costs, but I did get a significant bump in my entry step level for my classification.
Hi – Anyone with tips on negotiating an internal job salary or how to ask about that? The job is open for internal and external applications. I am like applying as the current director of the all prey department to the director of all mammals, carnivores and grazers? The director-of-all-critters pay range can depend on experience so it is tricky and can have significant variability. I am going to try and find out what my boss makes if I can _though they have more experience in the role and it is not a university where you could hunt it down. The first part is a screening phone interview and then you go forward (it would be weird if I did not go forward, but oh well – that happens then I've learned something).
What do you do when a range seems totally out of touch? I interviewed for director of web and content strategy a major metropolitan market. The range they said was $85-100k. I almost fell out of my chair. I was the first interview.
Practice the completely awkward pause. Listen, polite mouth opening in astonishment, and wait wait wait the awkward. Bathe in the awkward silence. I think, like the great Captain Awkward once said, relish the awkward. Suns collapse, glaciers melt, whole ecosystems go extinct waiting. If they don't say anything, repeat it back as confirmation. I did this once and confirmed we were so far out of sync it did not make sense to continue.
I heard from a friend (very under paid at the time) about this epic response. Their group was hiring and very much under paid for the role. The guy interviewing on the phone asked the salary range using the AAM classic "Before I let you pay for my travel…" (preCOVID) and it went something like this:
A: Offered salary range
Guy: Pauses. Waits.
"Hm. I'm not getting on a plane for that."
I respect the directness and wish I could do that.
Yes! Directness is valuable to me. I have referred to it as "authenticity" in interviews. I told them i thought it was low, but I also said I'd continue talking (because I find the process of interviewing instructional).
When Ive been asked about salary expectations by smaller companies when my career has been in large corporates, Ive said something like ' I want a big enough salary that you'll take me seriously when I make recommendations in my role – I understand it may not be what I make in a large corporation, but it should be a number you'll listen to, to give me credibility in your organization. This is because what's really important to name is autonomy and influence over strategy.
I don't base my assessment of credibility on a paycheck. I've known too many well paid morons I guess. If you said this to me, I don't think I'd move you forward in a hiring process. This response is not knowing or enlightening or clever — is needlessly complicated and borderline trite.
This is a fantastic round-up. Thank you for writing, compiling and posting!!!
This is such a timely post, I guess it's time to make my first comment!
I've been relying on the posts and comments here to navigate my first job as a Real Professional, and now my first job change: I maxed out what I could do after 5 years at First Job and I'm looking for a better environment where I can grow.
Today I got an offer from a place I'm excited to work at–the hours are M-F regular business hours (nights, weekends, and evenings are normal newbie shifts in my field), the environment is calm, the commute is practically nothing, and there's a lot of developments in the company's future that I can be really helpful with due to skills that are uncommon in my field. Three months ago, I'd have been thrilled with this offer.
But. When I applied, I made the mistake of honestly filling out my actual minimum salary requirement at the time (51/hr). I was making about 56. After my raise a couple months later, I was making nearly 60, and in my job hunt I got two offers for 75+ (without benefits), which I've turned down to wait to hear back from this place, and because those higher-paying places mean higher stress and irregular hours.
In the phone call, the HR rep offered me 49/hr for this job. I asked if there was room to go up, and they called me back with a counteroffer of 50. One dollar more. During this call I was polite but confused, because I'd thought I put 60 as my minimum and that's a huge gap. I checked later, and my memory was wrong. I'd asked for 51, and that was on the low end of their range. Whoops.
I'm wondering if I should try to call back tomorrow and revisit the salary in light of the recent offers, and the fact that I had to say my minimum salary over 3 months ago. The market value is higher than I thought when I applied.
Honestly, I would probably accept this job even if they can't go up, and after I realized I actually said such a low number, I don't feel so stung, but their range was something like 45-68 and I worry about leaving money on the table. Is there a respectful way to phrase this request? Or should I just take the lesson learned and always name a number higher than what I want?
Anyone have any advice on negotiating a gender equality raise? I've been with my company 3 yrs. My male coworker has been here four years. He was hired on at about 16% more than me, perhaps because I didn't negotiate as well as him and/or perhaps because he had some directly relevant experience that I did not. However since then I've definitely gotten up to speed in the areas where he has experience I didn't and I consistently outperform him in productivity metrics. How do I approach a conversation about asking to be paid equally with him in our annual performance review where no matter how great you are, you generally just get the standard cost of living raise unless you're a horrible employee?
I have a question. In my first interview, I was asked my salary expectation. "Could you please tell me your range?" I asked (this seems to work 80% of the time).
She said "Sure! It's $100k-$130k."
"Great! My range is $120-$140, so the top end of that works," I replied (I'm not sure if I should have said that or not).
I'm about to have my final interview, and I'm wondering: what if they offer me the job at, like, $100k. Or $115. I really want $130k, but asking for $30k (or even $20k) more is a LOT! And apparently I'm supposed to ask for more than I want?
Wondering a good script/advice.
Alison, any resources on negotiating salary for an internal role that is a promotion? What leverage do internal candidates have? How do you respond if the Hiring Manager says you're already in the payband for the new higher-level role?